Author Archives: ian.gibbs123

Wednesday 2nd June 2021. 1450 – 1600

Weather

7mm of rain in the gauge. Cloudy with showers in the morning. Clearing later to sunny periods. Light breeze. Track wet with numerous muddy patches. Water clearing. Level up 10 mm.

Wildlife Report

The weather had improved since lunchtime and I was motivated to get some exercise although Thomas still is convalescent after his recent back injury.
I quickly found “Popeye” the Green Ringtail Possum roosting in a tree to the lefty of the entrance to Allumbah Pocket.
Nothing was then seen until the Log Jam where a solitary Saw-shelled Turtle was sitting on top of the concrete slab.
Just past Platys Pool I spotted some ripples radiating from the bank suggesting the presence of a Platypus but a closer look revealed a large turtle foraging against the bank.
At the Overhanging Bushes I spotted a female Green Ringtail Possum with joey in the branches of a large River Oak. The foliage made observation difficult bu I managed with some difficulty to obtain images of both.
At the downstream side of Picnic Peninsula a small female Platypus was being pursued by a larger male. Both were spending most of their time submerged, rising only for a quick breather near the far bank before diving again. This made photography difficult but I did manage a couple of average quality snaps.
Continued to the Highway Bridge and spotted a female King Parrot taking an afternoon nap in a bush alongside.
On to Nick’s Camping Area where I was pleased to find the family of Bush Stone-curlews still together.
I decided to walk across the vacant lot with a view to checking the fig tree when I was surprised to see a female Lumholtz’s Tree Kangaroo with joey in the top of a tree along the Creek bank. I was able to approach somewhat but the angle of view and intervening branches made the photo opportunities limited by distance. The resulting images turned out surprisingly well!

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

“Popeye” looking rather sleepy
Good view of Mum but joey is on the branch behind her.
A glimpse of baby’s face with Mum obscured by the foliage

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

View of Turtle’s head obtained while hanging from bush by the finger nails of one hand.

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

Female on the surface
I like the light but not much else to commend it.

Australian King Parrot. Alisterus scapularis

Taking an afternoon nap

Bush Stone-curlew. Burhinus grallarius

Unsure which is which as the juvenile is now as big as the parents.

Lumholtz’s Tree Kangaroo. Dendrolagus lumholtzi

Very easy to see against sky but too far for good photos.
She turned her head at the right moment.

Thursday 27th May 2021. 1330 – 1450

Weather

7mm of rain in the gauge. Bright and sunny. Virtually cloud free. Minimal breeze. Track damp with a few muddy patches. Water level down 30mm. Good flow.

Wildlife Report

Sunny but quite cool as I set off wearing a jumper for the first time this year.
“Piratical Pete” the Green Ringtail Possum was in a tree to the right of the entrance to Allumbah Pocket and very well concealed but I did find a good view of his face from the opposite side of the tree.
A Dove was calling loudly from the direction of the Old Boiler Shed so I went to investigate and photographed a Brown Cuckoo-Dove who made it as difficult as possible by hopping among the branches.
Some delay in crossing the Suspension Bridge as a group of oldies (probably younger than me) took a cautious approach and crossed the span one at a time.
At the Memorial Bench a Saw-shelled Turtle was occupying the rocks at either side and a couple more were on the Fallen Tree at Snodgrass’s Pool. Several other specimens were observed along the Walk.
Nothing then until far side of Log Jam Peninsula where a couple of visitors had spotted a Platypus moving upstream.
I accelerated my pace somewhat and arrived at Platys Pool ahead of the Platypus and was able to grab a couple of shots. The couple turned out to be visitors from the Daintree who are followers of my blog and accompanied me along the Overhanging Bushes. Unfortunately there were no Possums in residence so I sent them off to look for the one at Allumbah Pocket. I hope that they were successful.
I then waited for the Platypus to arrive at Picnic Peninsula where another Platypus was moving down Stringers Stretch and they got within a couple of metres of each other before they both reversed course. I got a few images of both but all at some distance.
Several more visitors arrived on the scene and enjoyed the goings on.
Just below the Highway Bridge, Golden Orb-weaver Spiders were on each side of the track where they have been for a couple of weeks. They appear to be growing slowly and I photographed both.
The Brushtail Possum was roosting in the bush half way across the Bridge and I obtained the usual difficult image.
The Bunya Street Bush Stone-curlews were found this afternoon at the entrance to my next door neighbour’s garden and I was able to take Jennifer back to check them out.

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

“Piratical Pete” hiding at Allumbah Pocket.
A better view from the opposite side of the tree.

Brown Cuckoo-Dove. Macropygia phasianella

Near the Old Boiler Shed

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

Near the Memorial Bench
At Snodgrass’s Pool with a small friend.

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

At Platys Pool.
The same Platypus at Picnic Peninsula.
Second Platypus at Stringers Stretch.

Golden Orb-weaver Spider. Nephila pilipes

On Creek Bank below Highway Bridge
On opposite side of track.

Common Brushtail Possum. Trichosurus vulpecula

As seen from Highway Bridge

Bush Stone-curlew. Burhinus grallarius

A more tasteful spot than usual although the garden fence has been artfully cropped from the image!

Saturday 22nd May 2021.

Weather

5 mm of rain in the gauge. Cloudy with intermittent showers and a few brief sunny periods.

Wildlife Report

Weather today not conducive to Platypus Patrol so went shopping mainly to replaced Thomas’s bed which has been wrecked by the two newbies fighting on it.
Then decided to play with a couple of recent Platypus images in Corel PaintShop Pro and here is the result.

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

Original image from 10th April showing Platypus on log giving a dirty look to another passing Platypus which is unavoidably out of focus.
Platypus heading downstream near the Log Jam
Combined image after flipping the passer by and enhancing both images.

Friday 21st May 2021. 1445 – 1550

Weather

9 mm of rain in the gauge. Overcast and intermittent drizzle in the morning with sunny periods around lunch time. Heavier rain in mid afternoon. Track damp. No significant mud. Creek still running well. Water level down about 30 mm.

Wildlife Report

The tall Eucalypt at the bottom of our garden continues to be a gathering place for migratory flocks of birds and this morning was the turn of currawongs of which there were at one stage more than a dozen.
Drizzle did not encourage a walk at that time but in mid afternoon it brightened up and I decided to give it a try. Thomas is recovering well from his recent back episode but not yet fit enough for a Creek Patrol which is just as well as he would not have enjoyed the rain !
I photographed a female Australian King Parrot along Bunya Street but then saw nothing until the Memorial Bench where a large Turtle was occupying a rock. He left as I arrived and at this point it started to drizzle.
This continued until The Log Jam where I took shots of a couple of Saw-shelled Turtles, one on the concrete slab and one partly submerged as the rain started in earnest.
I was on my way to shelter under the large Camphor Laurel tree when I spotted a Platypus moving down stream so I returned to the tip of the peninsula where I was treated to a prolonged foraging session resulting in a selection of images, some quite close up.
I moved on as the rain eased somewhat and took pictures on another Turtle at Platys Pool.
In No 3 of the Overhanging Bushes I found a female Green Ringtail Possum accompanied by her joey who was refusing to show it’s face. Having tried every possible angle without success I returned to my starting point as the baby lifted it’s head and gave me an excellent shot.
I marked the spot with a forked twig hanging on the fence as I could see that a tourist bus had just arrived and when I met up with the group at The Narrows I was able to tell Izzie , the leader, where to look. I also to chatted to and English Nurse from the Lake District who was in the group.
I returned home surprisingly dry in spite of the weather.

Pied Currawong. Strepera graculina

More than a dozen birds were in the tree when I went to grab my camera.
A couple of the Currawongs. Not close enough fro a good shot

Australian King Parrot. Alisterus scapularis

Female KP along Bunya Street

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

At the Log Jam
On a submerged log at the Log Jam
On the Bank at Platys Pool

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

Moving Down Stream to Log Jam Pool
With eyes closed in preparation for diving. The eyes and ears are both within a deep groove along the side of the face.
Close up with eye open

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

Mother Possum with joey behind her looking the other way
The view I was hoping for!

Tuesday 11th May 2021. 1420 – 1540

Weather

No rain. Cloudy with sunny periods. No significant breeze. Track overall dry with a few damp patches. Water level remains high with good flow.

Wildlife Report

Intense activity at home has made if difficult to go on Patrol for about 10 days. With two new recruits in the household, 7 month old miniature chocolate and tan dachshund Tansy, followed by 6 year old rescue chocolate and tan Em, we were busy enough and then Thomas jumped from a chair and again injured his back. Fortunately it was not as bad as last time and after 10 days in a cage he is very much improved but will have to be confined for another week or so. After shopping this morning I suddenly had the feeling that I should check out the Creek and was very glad that I did!
Along Bunya Street I saw a couple of female King Parrots feeding greedily from immature figs.
On arrival at Allumbah Pocket I immediately spotted “Piratical Pete” the Green Ringtail Possum who posed for me in a tree to the left of the entrance.
On the right side a blob in a tree was eventually revealed as a Lumholtz’s Tree Kangaroo although it’s position prevented any good photographs. A glimpse of a Tree Roo is however always a good day!
While crossing the suspension Bridge I photographed two Saw-shelled Turtles socialising below.
At Horseshoe Rocks I sighed a handsome Eastern Water Dragon and this was followed by a juvenile and two more adult males, the last being “Scarface” the large animal with a facial ulcer. I guess that he is embarrassed by his appearance as recently he has been reluctant to stay still long enough for a photo.
A row of Turtles were gracing the fallen tree at Snodgrass’s Pool.
In the vicinity of Platypus bend I captured shots of a Bower’s Shrikethrush and a Yellow-faced Honeyeater.
A large Golden Orb-weaver spider was above the path at the base of Log Jam Peninsula and another Turtle was on the concrete slab opposite the tip.
At Platys Pool a Pacific Black Duck came paddling slowly downstream.
While searching the Overhanging Bushes a couple of excited overseas visitors told me that they had just seen a Platypus so I hurried on to Stringers Stretch where it was busy feeding. It was not inclined to visit my side of the creek but quite happy to entertain a bus full of tourists who soon arrived.
Several more Golden Orb-weavers were seen on the approach to the Highway Bridge.
Final sighting for the day was another Green Ringtail Possum in the fig tree which overhangs the vacant lot next to the Doctor House.

Australian King Parrot. Alisterus scapularis

Female King Parrots along Bunya Stree

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

“Piratical Pete” at Allumbah Pocket
Another GRP in the fig Tree near the Doctor House

Lumholtz’s Tree Kangaroo. Dendrolagus lumholtzi

Blob in tree resolved into the tip of a tail and a Tree Roo’s foot
Glimpse of a face.
The best view I could find

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

Two turtles socialising under the Suspension Bridge
On fallen tree at Snodgrass’s Pool.
At The Log Jam

Eastern Water Dragon. Physignathus lesueurii

Male in mating dress at Horseshoe rocks
Juvenile Dragon at next rock pile
Opposite Snodgrass’s Pool

Bower’s Shrikethrush. Colluricincla boweri

At Platypus Bend

Yellow-faced Honeyeater. Caligavis chrysops

At Platypus Bend

Golden Orb-weaver Spider. ssp Nephila

At Log Jam Peninsula. Note two obvious males + another attempting to mate!
Approaching Highway Bridge

Pacific Black Duck. Anas superciliosa

At Platys Pool

Sunday 2nd May 2021. 1435- 1605

Weather

2.5 mm of rain. Sunny with scattered cloud. Light breeze. Track damp but still muddy in parts, particularly across base of Log Jam Peninsula. Water level remains high.

Wildlife Report

Thomas and I saw nothing on arrival at Allumbah pocket until we ducked back up the track leading to the Volunteers Storage Shed and found “Piratical Pete” the Green Ringtail Possum sitting in a very exposed position in the afternoon sun. He was presenting an excellent view including a close up of the family jewels!
We were joined by a couple with a small boy who have recently moved from Adelaide to Cairns. They had already seen numerous Turtles and a Platypus and were amazed by the wildlife. Thomas was also admired which made his day.
Moving on we photographed a gang of turtles posing on the fallen log at Snodgrass’s Pool.
On the other side of the track ‘Scar Face” the Eastern Water Dragon was seen on his regular rock but took to the bushes as soon as we approached.
Nearing Platypus bend, a small group were watching a Platypus feeding in front of them. I took a solitary photo as it dived but at that point Thomas slipped out of his escape proof harness and by the time he was back in it the Platypus had vanished!
More Saw-shelled Turtles were seen at Platys Pool and a large specimen opposite the tip of Picnic Peninsula.
Looking back on No 3 of the Overhanging Bushes I spotted a juvenile Green Ringtail Possum shinning up the higher branches too fast for me to get a photo. Moving back to the other side of the tree I soon found mum who was herself well concealed and for a few seconds her joey was seen above her but it vanished and was not seen again.
A couple from Cairns and another pair visiting from Adelaide also enjoyed the view.
Nothing was seen along the remainder of the track apart from a large bus full of tourists who did not communicate.
Half way across Highway Bridge the Chocolate Brushtail Possum was again in residence and was exposing just enough of himself to photograph.
At Nick’s Car Park I was pleased to see the family of Bush Stone-curlews in a typically aesthetic location.
Finally a small group of White-headed Pigeons were in the large Camphor Laurel tree at the front corner of our garden.

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

“Piratical Pete” at Allumbah Pocket
Well concealed Mum at No 3 Overhanging Bushes. Joey was somewhere in the foliage.

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

At Snodgrass’s Pool
Large Turtle a Picnic Peninsula

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

Just to prove I did see one

Common Brushtail Possum. Trichosurus vulpecula

Amazing that this possum is seen so often half way across the Highway Bridge although I guess that his tree doesn’t shake like the bridge does and very few of the foot traffic ever notice him!

Bush Stone-curlew. Burhinus grallarius

Mum and Dad looking very comfortable
Wide angle shot showing juvenile and delightful surroundings!

White-headed Pigeon. Columba leucomela

Very close to home

Friday 30th April 2021. 1020 – 1140

Weather

5 mm of rain in the gauge. Overcast with occasional brief sunny periods.
No breeze. Track wet. Several ephemeral streams across track. Very muddy in parts, particularly at the base of Log Jam Peninsula. Water level high, steady. Strong flow.

Wildlife Report

Went across Lloyd’s Bridge immediately on arrival to have a chat with the volunteers at The Other Side.
Returned after to photograph “Piratical Pete” the Green Ringtail Possum who was in the trees to the left of Allumbah Pocket entrance.
While waiting to return across the Bridge got a nice shot of a Barred Cuckooshrike.
The Flying foxes are still visible in the trees downstream.
A very small Saw-shelled Turtle was on a rock under the bridge and continued to be the most common species noted today with others being seen at Snodgrass’s Pool, Platypus Bend, The Log Jam and Stringers Stretch. The better images are shown.
A Spectacled Monarch enjoying smoko and a Willie Wagtail were photographed at Platys Pool.
In No 3 of the Overhanging Bushes I spotted a very well concealed female Green Ringtail Possum with a half grown joey by her side. It was impossible to get a good view of the baby.
No Platypus were seen today.
While crossing the Highway Bridge the Chocolate Brushtail Possum was in it’s favourite bush and a juvenile Eastern Water Dragon was snapped on the rocks below.
The Bunya Street Bush Stone-curlew was in one of his regular pitches in a nearby garden.

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

“Piratical Pete” at Allumbah Pocket
Rear view showing Mum with prominent back stripes on right and smaller joey to the left.
Mum peeping out from the dense foliage

Barred Cuckooshrike. Coracina lineata

Close to Suspension Bridge

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

Under the Suspension Bridge
On Fallen Tree at Snodgrass’s Pool
At The Log Jam

Spectacled Monarch. Symposiachrus trivirgatus

Enjoying a juicy insect

Willie Wagtail. Rhipidura leucophrys

At Platys Pool

Chocolate Brushtail Possum. Trichosurus vulpecula

Alongside Highway Bridge

Eastern Water Dragon. Physignathus lesueurii

Below the Bridge

Bush Stone-curlew. Burhinus grallarius

In Bunya Street garden

Saturday 24th April 2021. 1000 – 1105

Weather

2 mm of rain in gauge but around 100 mm over past few days. Overcast but brightening. Radar suggests no rain imminent. No breeze. Track wet in parts with ephemeral streams across track. Stepping stones well covered and water level up approx 7cms since last Patrol.

Wildlife Report

Thomas gave me a withering look so I started out alone at 1000 hrs.
Fruit Bats were very noisy as I approached Allumbah Pocket and as I could see no signs of Possums or Tree Kangaroos I turned right and continued along the track for about 100 mtrs.
There is a substantial camp of Spectacled Flying Foxes extending back from from the creek bank and although they are not densely crowded they are occupying a dozen or so trees. All were high in the canopy of tall trees which is not conducive to good photography I managed to get a few reasonable shots.
Returning to Lloyd’s Suspension Bridge, from which the Flying foxes were still visible, I crossed over and in the course of looking for Possums noted that a thick vine is winding itself around the NBN fibreoptic cable where it goes vertically up before crossing the creek in what I can only describe as a fairly casual manner!
As the vine is around 25 mm in diameter and already deforming the cable I took it upon myself to report it to NBN so blame me if there are a few unscheduled outages in the near future!
No wildlife around until Snodgrass’s Pool where a couple of Saw-shelled Turtles were on the fallen tree and “Scarface” the Eastern Water Dragon was on the other side of the track. He was not in the mood today and would not allow me to get close enough for a photo.
At Platypus bend a very small Turtle was on top of a curved log and two more much larger specimens were atop the concrete slab at the Log Jam.
As soon as I turned around to continue I observed a Platypus coming down stream and she fortunately decided to have a comprehensive scratch right in front of me before entering the Log Jam Pool.
She remained obstinately on the far side of the creek putting a stop to any better photos although I did snap an Orchard Swallowtail Butterfly having a rest on the far Bank.
At Stringers Stretch another small Turtle was displaying on a log.
Arriving at the Highway Bridge I spotted a Platypus very close to the bank and having some difficulty overcoming the water flowing out of the Viewing Pool. She then moved diagonally across the stream which did the trick and I caught up with her later.
In the bushes alongside the walkway I photographed the Chocolate Brushtail Possum who favors this spot
I managed to get a couple of long range shots of the Platypus on arrival at the Viewing Platform.
Sadly I found a very dead Common Brushtail Possum at the other side of the Bridge. Rigor mortis was well established and she was cold but I checked her pouch and found a minute pink joey on one of her teats. It seemed non viable to me but I checked with my Wildlife Rescue mentor before disposing of the corpse.

Spectacled Flying Fox. Pteropus conspicillatus

In trees along track to Frawley’s Pool
One face just visible at top right

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

At Snodgrass’s Pool
Tiny Turtle at Platypus Bend
At the Log Jam

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

Having a good scratch
Moving into Log Jam Pool
Distant shot at Viewing Pool
As close as I could get

Orchard Swallowtail Butterfly. Papillio aegeus

Long Range shot

Common Brushtail Possum. Trichosurus vulpecula– chocolate colouration

From Highway Bridge
Best I could do


Saturday 17th April 2021. 0815 – 0910 + images from the previous few days.

Weather

1 mm of rain in the gauge. Sunny with scattered clouds. Minimal breeze. Track dry. Water level falling slowly.

Wildlife Report

I will start with an image of a juvenile Black Butcher Bird (rufous morph) which spent some minutes on one of our bird platforms a few days ago. Quite an imposing bird!
I then went on a short walk on Wednesday 14th in the late afternoon but saw so little I was not inclined to work on a post. I did however see “Piratical Pete” the Green Ringtail Possum and a few Saw-shelled turtles at Snodgrass’s Pool and The Log Jam which I will record here.
Thomas was on that occasion wearing his new, super-duper, can’t wriggle out of it, harness which he managed to back out of while I was photographing “Pete” at the entrance to Allumbah Pocket. At least today we managed to complete today’s patrol without embarrassment!
Set off quite early today and along Bunya Street photographed an Alexander Palm with quite spectacular fruit.
At Allumbah Pocket an as yet unnamed Green Ringtail Possum was asleep in a tree to the left of the entrance while “Pete” was down the informal entrance path near the Storage Shed.
In the middle of the path near the Picnic Shelter a Pale-yellow Robin was enjoying a large insect which he had caught for breakfast.
The Spectacled Flying Foxes could again be seen in a tree on the Yungaburra bank while crossing the Suspension Bridge.
In the tree to the left of “Gumtrees on Gillies” gate the “Chocolate” Brushtail Possum was easily seen and for a change was offering a full view of her face.
It was a bit early today for Water Dragons and Turtles.
In the trees across the path from Snodgrass’s Pool a very handsome White-headed Dove was photographed.
At Log Jam Peninsula I heard a bird with a repetitive single note call which turned out to be an Eastern Yellow Robin who perched conveniently close to me.
I bumped into a couple of Cairns families whom I directed towards the Possums and hope that they were able to find them.
They told me that they had seen a Platypus which turned out to be my regular friend at Stringers Stretch which already had a small fan club in attendance. She was very busy feeding but unfortunately remained stubbornly close to the far bank. My photos completed today’s outing.

Black Butcher Bird. Melloria quoyi – juvenile rufous morph

Imposing bird.

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

“Piratical Pete” to right of entrance to Allumbah Pocket on 14/04

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

At Snodgrass’s Pool on 14/04
At the Log Jam on 14/04

TODAY

Alexander Palm. Archontophoenix Alexandere (there appears to be some controversy re botanical name)

Along Bunya StreeT

Green Ringtail Possum. Pseudochirops archeri

Allumbah Pocket to left of main entrance. I am asleep and do not wish to wake up!
“Piratical Pete” near the Storage Shed

Pale-yellow Robin. Tregellasia capito

Breakfast is served

Spectacled Fruit Bat. Pteropus conspicillatus

View from Suspension Bridge

Common Brushtail Possum. Trichosurus vulpecula

Two images of “Chocolate” Possum. Divot removed from right ear is new or a different possum

White-headed Pigeon. Columba leucomela

I love these large pigeons

Eastern Yellow Robin. Eopsaltria australis

At Log Jam Peninsula

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

A couple of long range images to prove that I saw one!



Monday 12th April 2021. 1330 – 1445

Weather

5 mm of rain in gauge. Sunny with scattered clouds. Some brief storms later. Minimal breeze. Track mainly dry. Water level down 30 mm.

Wildlife Report

Arrived at Allumbah Pocket full of anticipation and for the first time in ages was disappointed by a complete absence of Possums.
While crossing Lloyd’s Bridge however I photographed a Varied Triller and a male Fairy Gerygone who was enjoying a late lunch.
A pair of Pacific Emerald Doves were pecking among the pebbles at The Other Side
On the Rocks in front of the Memorial Bench a Saw-shelled Turtle was taking the air. A Row of similar Turtles were occupying the fallen log at Snodgrass’s Pool.
An Eastern Water Dragon was on the rocks on the other side of the track.
More Turtles and a Water Dragon were on the concrete slab at The Log Jam but took to the water before I could lift my camera.
The same Platypus was at almost the same spot along Stringers Stretch and although quite cooperative was not providing the same level of entertainment as on the previous two days.
The Golden Orb Weaver Spider was in the same spot near the Highway Bridge.
A White-headed Pigeon was photographed along the lane to Bunya Street.
You can’t have diamonds every day but I still got some good photos!

Varied Triller. Lalage leucomela

Two views of the Varied Triller

Brown Gerygone. Gerygone mouki

Looks very tasty

Pacific Emerald Dove. Chalcophaps longirostris. Male

Saw-shelled Turtle. Elseya latisternum

In front of Memorial Bench
Practicing their log riding skills

Eastern Water Dragon. Physignathus lesueurii

High up on the rocks

Platypus. Ornithorhynchus anatinus

Distant view at Stringers Stretch
Heading across the Creek
Much closer

Golden Orb-weaver Spider. ssp Nephila

A faithful performer

White-headed Pigeon. Columba leucomela

Still lots of them around